Q&A with Herman Badillo

Herman Badillo

New York City's mayoral primaries are less than a month away, but with the absence of a turbulent candidate like Ed Koch or Rudy Giuliani, the electorate's turnout is bound to be minuscule. To some extent this is understandable: the four Democratic candidates are longtime political hacks who have barely articulated a coherent plan for the city other than career advancement.

Then there's billionaire Michael Bloomberg, a limo-liberal Democrat who switched his party affiliation so that he'd coast to victory in the Republican primary. New York's GOP machine?smitten with Bloomberg's money?embraced the political novice and attempted to prevent Herman Badillo from challenging the media magnate.

Gov. Pataki, who's tacked to the left in anticipation of next year's reelection fight against either Andrew Cuomo or Carl McCall, most likely now realizes that his initial support of the gaffe-a-day Bloomberg was a blunder. Already this summer Bloomberg has received the endorsement of Lenora Fulani, the schizophrenic ally of Louis Farrakhan and Pat Buchanan; claimed there was little racial discrimination in the Northeast; referred to taxis as mass transit; and said that a sanitation worker's job was more dangerous than that of a cop or fireman. Just last week, in a Brooklyn speech, Bloomberg said, "A battered woman, that's a quality-of-life crime. Abuse of a child, that's a quality-of-life crime."

Badillo, seeking the mayoralty for the fourth time, ignored the strong-arm tactics of the GOP establishment. Born in Puerto Rico 72 years ago, he moved to New York City at the age of 11, as an orphan who couldn't speak English. Since graduating from City College, he's amassed an impressive public service record: the first Hispanic U.S. congressman; Bronx borough president; deputy mayor to Koch; and chairman of CUNY's board of trustees. The outspoken Badillo, who became a Republican three years ago because he believed the Democratic Party no longer represented his views, is the only candidate who closely identifies himself with Giuliani's policies. He praises the term-limited Mayor's undeniable success in revitalizing the city in the wake of David Dinkins' disastrous administration, while remaining discreet about Giuliani's temperamental and often mean-spirited persona.

Badillo has pledged to reduce personal income taxes and embark upon an ambitious commercial redevelopment program in the five boroughs; however, the centerpiece of his campaign is his plan to overhaul the city's deplorable public education system. He sat down for the following interview at the New York Press offices on Aug. 3.

Well, I go to court. I'm a trial lawyer. I go to court, mostly real estate and banking cases.

JS: So it's not just for your lobbying connections?

No, I don't do lobbying. Although I have been spending a huge percentage of my time over the last couple of years at the City University [as Chairman of the Board of Trustees, appointed by Gov. Pataki], because in order to change the structure as I did?it's a full-time job. It was basically my feeling that open enrollment was destroying the value of the City University. And the professors and the chancellor were very happy to go along with this system.

JS: You took a tremendous amount of heat for that.

Oh yeah, I did. I had to fight the faculty senate, I had to debate the faculty senate and the students. It was just outrageous that the Democratic Party would refuse to recognize that it was working. That's why I became a Republican.

Russ Smith: In '98.

In '98, yes. There were graduating teachers who could not pass the teacher's exam at City College and at all the other colleges. That's a disgrace, because teachers from CUNY make up the largest percentage of teachers in the public school system. So the teachers can't pass the exam, they're not gonna be able to teach the students. One guy that the Daily News wrote about last year was teaching, graduated from City College in 1994, has failed the teacher's exam 12 times. They ask him, "How do you justify failing the exam?" He says, "Very tough questions about Robert Frost?the guy with the poems." I mean, come on! It's ridiculous!... So I got rid of the president, I put in a new dean of teacher education, and now nobody graduates who can't pass the exam...

The problem is there are no standards and there's no discipline. And the problem really goes back to the question of racism. When I went to City College, it was predominantly white. There were standards then. At City College you had to be an A-student to get in... But then, when the school population became predominantly black and Latino, everybody panicked about flunking blacks and Latinos. So they came up with this phony idea called "social promotion," where you passed just because you're a year older... It's insulting to me as a Puerto Rican to be told that blacks and Latinos can't perform like anybody else. I mean, I compete with people all the time who are not Puerto Rican. I was the only Puerto Rican in City College. In law school I was number-one in my class. I was the first Puerto Rican congressman. The idea that we cannot meet the same standards as anybody else is insulting to me, and to a lot of Latinos and to a lot of blacks... I don't have to be afraid of being called a racist, I don't have to be afraid of telling blacks and Latinos you can learn like anybody else, because you have the ability to learn.

RS: What is your campaign game plan? In the newspapers, from Newsday to the Post to the Daily News, there've been some positive articles about you, but somewhat condescending. As in, wouldn't it be nice if Herman Badillo could make this a race? And then they dismiss you. It's my opinion that Bloomberg is such an obnoxious character that he's gonna do what Jon Corzine did. Corzine would've won by 10 points if he'd spent half the money he did, because people just got tired of seeing his face. So what is your game plan to beat Bloomberg in the primary?

These guys don't remember?John Dyson spent $5 million, Mark Green spent $600,000, and he beat Dyson overwhelmingly [in the 1986 Democratic primary for Senate]. Money may be the root of all evil, but it is not the root of all victories. Money is not the answer. It is having principles, having a philosophy, having a program. My wife says it's not a question of having commercials, but of having credentials.

RS: Well, Bloomberg keeps shooting himself in the foot almost every day.

He says stupid things like there should be prayer in schools. He went to the Women's National Republican Club, looks around and says, "Praise Hillary Clinton." Forgot the Republican women don't like Hillary Clinton. So my philosophy is to do the same thing that Rudy did with Ron Lauder [his millionaire opponent in the '89 Republican mayoral primary]. Fact is, there's gonna be a very low turnout in the Republican primary. About 110,000 people. And the votes are primarily in Queens, Brooklyn, Bronx and Staten Island. It's not the millionaires and billionaires.

RS: Is Staten Island a key borough?

There are only 12,000 votes on Staten Island. It's a very small place. The reality is we're talking about primarily Italian and Irish one-family homeowners, who believe in family values, who believe in standards, who support what I am trying to do, who support the police department, who support Giuliani. That's the group?it's not the crowd that Bloomberg is appealing to?or the four Democrats, because they all are saying the same thing.

RS: Who do you expect that the daily newspapers are going to endorse in the primary?

I think that they're going to endorse me. The only thing they talk about is that I don't have any money...

RS: Why do you think Pataki, who is obviously courting the Hispanic vote, cut you out of the process and went with Bloomberg?

Because of money.

RS: Obviously, but Pataki's not stupid. He had to take one look at Mike Bloomberg?and I don't think Bloomberg's stupid either, but he's not a politician. He's tone deaf. And too vain to boot. But I don't understand how Pataki gets involved in Vieques and then?

Beginning last week, Saul Cohen, who was my finance chairman in 1993, and had been sent to me by Giuliani, agreed to become my finance chairman again this year. He would not have done that unless Giuliani had approved. The fact that this happened last week shows a change in point of view.

Last week, a fellow by the name of Leo Kayser, who went to Yale with Pataki, who was chairman of Pataki's PAC, and who raised in the last few months $500,000 for Pataki in two out of seven cities?he became vice chairman of my finance committee.

Now, clearly, and he said at a press conference which I held, Saul Cohen said there was no problem with Giuliani. Leo Kayser said he had talked to the governor, and the governor did not object. So it shows that the atmosphere is now changing, and I'm beginning to get support from people who are close to Pataki and to Giuliani.

RS: Why did you leave Congress in '78 to become deputy mayor to Ed Koch?

Because Jimmy Carter had come to my district, to Charlotte St. I had been pushing for every president to come to my district, because my theory was, if I could get the president of the United States, with the burned-out buildings in the background, that picture would be flashed throughout the world, and the president would be compelled to do something about it.

So Jimmy Carter came. Sure enough, the picture was flashed throughout the world. So then I met, many times, with Jimmy Carter in the Oval Office and in the Cabinet Room, and I said, "Mr. President, it happens that I am a housing expert. I began as a housing commissioner. I did the West Side Urban Renewal, a huge number of projects, and I am telling you the easiest thing we can do is to rebuild the slums of America because we have the infrastructure. We have the streets, we have the sewers. We have the transportation facilities. The schools. Police stations, fire stations. All that happened was that the housing burned down. If we restore the housing, at a lower density, we have an instant neighborhood... I want to rebuild the South Bronx, from Fordham Rd. to 138th St., Harlem River to Bronx River Pkwy.?the largest urban renewal plan in the history of the country. To prove that we can eliminate slums. Seven hundred and fifty-thousand people. And I'm telling you, we can do this for less than a billion dollars a year..."

I said, "Well, Mr. President, you have to understand, I'm gonna leave Congress and I'm gonna become deputy mayor, so don't jerk me around and then say you only want to have a pilot project." And I thought he understood, because he's an engineer and I explained it to him in engineering terms. And I wrote it for him. And I said, in the first page, "This is not supposed to be a pilot project."

So he said, "Okay, go ahead." So I resigned, became deputy mayor. Within less than four months, I had the South Bronx plan approved... After I get it approved, Ed Koch comes in one day and says, "Herman, the president is furious at you." I said, "Why?" "'Cause you got the plan approved." I said, "That's what I said I was gonna do." "He didn't think you could do it. He thought you were only talking about a pilot project." I say, "What's the matter with that jerk? I mean, would I leave Congress for that?" And he says, "Well, he will not go along. He wants me to terminate it." So Koch pulled back the plan under the ruse of having a street closing, and it was defeated.

That was Jimmy Carter. Now the bum is going around with a hammer and nails fixing up Habitat. He's an absolute bum!

RS: Who do you suspect will be your challenger if you win the Republican primary?

I think it will be Mark Green, because Mark is very secure. He's been ahead in the polls throughout.

RS: Do you think he'll face a run-off?

I think he will, yeah. I don't think he's gonna get to 40 percent, because he went down from 32 to 30 in the last poll.

RS: And who do you think it'll be against?

I think it will be against Peter or Freddy. Peter is beginning to pick up steam from some of the unions. Hevesi would have been in, but Hevesi went nuts when he started saying we should pay reparations to blacks. And then Abner Louima, and then talking about letting unions go on strike. He went from being a middle-of-the-road candidate?he could have been the candidate?all the way to being the most leftist of all the candidates.

RS: I think Vallone is the comer. Green has a history of peaking early.

Freddy could make it if Sharpton gives him the backing, and doesn't screw him. But the problem with that is, if Al comes out for you, he hurts you, because he would say, "I want Freddy to be the mayor so I can run for president in 2004." Well, that's, you know. [laughs] If he would just say, "Because I think he's the best candidate." He can't get himself around to saying that "I support this guy because he's a good candidate." He always has to give a qualification, which hurts more than helps.

RS: How do you get past, in the general election, the fact that the city is five-to-one Democratic?

It's not really, that. That's a fictitious figure.

RS: That's the figure that gets thrown around by everyone.

It's thrown out, but it has no meaning.

RS: But how do you?

Same way we elected Rudy in '93 and '97. I will bring in even more Hispanics to vote. I'll steal 'em from Freddy?from Green. Because the Hispanic community, nationwide, is moving toward the Republican Party.

RS: Obviously.

George Bush got 49 percent in Texas, Jeb Bush got 60 percent in Florida and McCain got 52 percent in Arizona. We got 43 percent in '97 for Rudy. The Democratic Party that has that loss cannot prevail.

And then there's 750,000 Independents in New York City who will not vote for Green. Because I am very clear in my positions about the police. I support the police. The police are not an army of occupation. Without the police we cannot have a safe city. I would train the police better at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, I would get 'em college degrees, I'll get 'em better training and understanding of the communities, but you have to support the police.

RS: If you get past Bloomberg, do you think you can get some significant help from the RNC?

Oh, yes, I've been told that Rudy will support me, that Pataki will support me and that Bush will support me... In fact, I've talked to Bush in Spanish. Last time he came to Ellis Island, I was the only mayoral candidate he invited to Ellis Island. I saw Bush, I talked to him, and he knows I'm running for mayor.

RS: It seems to me to be an ideal opportunity for Bush.

Yeah, he knows I'm running for mayor, he knows I'm trying to reform the Republican Party so that we get more people into the Republican Party. Because the Republican Party has had nothing but disasters [in New York City]... It's almost in its death throes. And I have the support of the Young Republicans who see a future in the Republican Party. And I believe I'm the key to it, because I keep saying to the governor's people, to the mayor's people, that Bloomberg may have money, but I have votes. The answer is not getting more money, but getting more votes. The difference between Rudy in 1993 and '89 was the Hispanic votes that I brought in. And in '97, the Hispanic vote that I brought in. So the Hispanic community is ready to go. But they got to be made to feel welcome in the party... If I am not acceptable to the Republican Party, then no Hispanics are gonna be. The worst signal you can send is that Badillo is not acceptable.

JS: Bloomberg was trying to pitch himself as a next Rudy. It would seem to me clearly that if anybody has the opportunity to do that, it would be you.

Well, yeah, but he's changed his style. The day before yesterday we had Bloomberg pitching himself as "a leader for hard times." That was the headline. So he now has a new strategy. He says New York City is heading toward a disaster. You need a businessman who knows how to balance the budget. Problem with that is, nobody believes New York City is heading toward a disaster. We have a downturn. It's not as great as it was last year, but nobody says we're gonna lose 400,000 jobs as we did when Dinkins was mayor. And the downturn is a manageable downturn. And if there were a disaster, he would be the last guy to be able to handle it, because then you gotta deal with competing groups who'd be clamoring that they'd want a share. Then you gotta know how to handle the groups. He doesn't realize that managing the city is not managing a business.

RS: Do you have anybody coming in from outside the city to campaign for you?

Not in the primary. I mean, McCain agrees with me, but he's committed to Bloomberg because Bloomberg held a big party for him when he was promoting his book. And everybody out of the people who agreed with me in the Republican Party has a problem, because they don't want to antagonize Bloomberg, because they've done business with him or they're socially friendly with him. Or socially and politically friendly to Pataki.

JS: But you're saying if you can knock him out, Rudy's gonna come on board, Pataki's gonna come on board, the RNC's gonna come on board.

Oh, it'd be a tremendous victory for them. You get a Latino mayor of New York City?

RS: That's a dream for Bush.

Yeah, it's a dream. See, because last year, Bush got 35 percent of the Latino vote nationwide. And The Wall Street Journal has had articles that say the goal of the RNC now is to bring the Hispanic vote up to 40 percent. They bring it up to 40 percent, Bush wins. And he doesn't have to worry about Gore or chads or anything else. And if you got Badillo as the mayor of New York City, you bring in the city, and I campaign in New Jersey, I campaign in Connecticut, in Bridgeport, in Massachusetts, in Philadelphia...

RS: Yeah, I'm just wondering why there're a lot of Republican Hispanic leaders, obviously a lot in Texas but now in California as well, who you'd think would be coming in to help battle Bloomberg, who don't have the ties to Bloomberg money-wise.

Well, they've been telling the RNC to help me. The problem is the RNC?they feel as a matter of policy, they get involved in one Republican primary and then they're in the hole because there's enormous pressure to get involved in other primaries. Like they had with Bret Schundler in New Jersey and many others that are pending.

RS: They did get involved in that.

They don't get involved in any of them.

RS: Well, Karl Rove was hoping that Franks was gonna win.

Yeah?

RS: Stupidly, because Schundler has much better chances. Schundler has a decent chance of winning.

Yeah, I agree. I know Schundler, and I know McGreevey, and Schundler is easily much more charismatic.

RS: If you could beat Bloomberg, the RNC would be there with money for Virginia, New York City and New Jersey. It would be a very interesting fall.

Okay, last question: Again, what do you think the turnout will be in the primary?

A hundred and ten thousand. Same as with Lauder. And that's not a big crowd. And the 110,000 are gonna be real Republicans. People who are voting in a primary out of principle. And they're not gonna be voting for Bloomberg, because there's no principle there.